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Stumbled across this site dedicated to Grand Prix race cars of the 1930’s. A plethora of information with race grids, results, discussions, cars, variants, races and even livery by race!! Thoughts on tires, fuel and even mechanics duties.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/leif.snellman/main.htm
If you’re interested in this era you’ll find a lot of it here, including the wonderful 1935 Monaco-Trossi with a radial 16 cylinder, twin supercharged two stroke engine!!
And apparently someone has made a slot car model of it! Spectacular!! :rose:
http://www.slotforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53032&page=2
Staying with more or less the same cars, it’s interesting to look at the drawings of them to see where things were placed relative to the frame that allowed the cars to become lower, and how much lower they became.
For the Bentley, one can see that although accommodations were made in the rear for the drive axle, and that bits do hang down, the frame is basically perched just above the centre line of the wheel hubs, the body above that, making for a very tall car (somewhere around 6 feet!!)
By the 1938 Alfa Romeo Type 158 Voiturette the front suspension was placed well above the frame, the engine was tucked down in the frame but was still vertical and somewhat tallish, the rear differential was offset upwards so the car sat much lower, but the driver still sat quite upright and combined with the tall front placed motor made for a taller car than it’s intended successor the type 512.
It’s intended replacement the Type 512 turned the whole thing around. It put the lower bits in the front, dropped the driver lower between the rails, developed a flat 12 motor to reduce engine height, and used ideas developed earlier to get the rest of the bits as low as possible.
All this effort resulted in a ground clearance slightly less than the section height of the tire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwaVDlGFtXU
And just for fun!! :yahoo:
The two seat Alfa (1750) is going to be my next vintage attempt, apparently there are several nice resin versions of the P3, and for the 512, take 1 part Type C Auto Union, gently stir in 1 part type D Auto union, shake well, and voila a Type 512!! :yahoo:
I suspect we’re playing to a very limited interest group here regardless…. B-)
And yes I suspect cars would sort themselves into appropriate groups quite quickly. :scratch:
Simple test:
Does it look like this: or this :
Or this Or this
And for those pesky transitional years cars, maybe it looks more like this. :yahoo:
And there you go, three groups no waiting!! My dream garage as well!!
Can you image cars changed that much in 10 years (less if you consider the early Mercedes/Auto Union cars which came around ’34 I think)!! :scratch:
The 30’s were such a glorious time for race car design. It started out with manufacturers using re-purposed touring cars with riding mechanics and perching the frame somewhere close to the centre line of the axles like old Bentley’s and the 6C1750 Alfa. (You knew I was going to find a way to talk about Alfa’s :wacko: ).
By the mid 30’s more purpose built cars like the P3 Alfa of 1934 had done away with the riding mechanic and Auto Union and the Silver Arrows Mercedes were just coming over the horizon.
There were some epic races between the older designs as they were driving off into the sunset and the newer lower cars as they were coming screaming over the hill. Nuvolari’s victory at the 1935 German GP at the Nurburgring in an old P3 Alfa when he defeated the early Auto Unions and Mercedes Silver Arrows teams comes to mind.
And by the late 30’s automotive technology had advanced such that manufacturers like Auto Union, Mercedes and Bugatti were building race bred cars with frame and axle geometry that allowed ground clearance of only about the section height of the tire. Even Alfa was getting in on the act with it’s type 512. (Lovely isn’t it?? :yahoo: )
Should we exclude some of these wonderful race cars from the late 30’s simply because they are too low? And they certainly wouldn’t look ‘right’ if perched up on the centre line of the axle which would be necessary to get 5mm clearance. Seems a shame to not have a way to run these cars if someone might wish to build them. Perhaps so long as the car is built so that the axles come out from under the body as much as possible in the same place as they originally did and they look ‘right’, lets try to include them.
Of course this would obviously result in a plethora of running heights, some models probably having a clearance of somewhere around 3mm. in our 1/32 case, and intuitively these cars will probably make faster vintage racers than say the 1930 4 1/2L blower Bentley :unsure: . They’ll probably run at about the same rates as our 50’s GP cars given the proposed motors and open gearing.
Not to suggest it, but perhaps 2 or 3 or more vintage groups (but just 1 vintage class to cover the 30’s) as is currently being done for some classes, split either by type of derivation (touring derived or purpose race) or maybe year or even ride height might be appropriate. Hopefully anyone building one of these vintage cars will want it to look right! We could run them all together at first and as time goes by if there is sufficient interest run them in their own groups as the fields grow.
What a great way to learn more about this era of early automotive history.
Any thoughts?
Perhaps I’m jumping the gun here a bit, but since it is a scratch built model I sent in a Scratch32 form for the Bentley. As there is not really an official class on the form it will will need to be changed from 1950’s F1 to Show/Parade/Miscellaneous/Vintage, whenever an appropriate class is added to the data base. I’m attaching a picture to go with it as there is no place on the form to do so.
It is done in the livery of the #8 car as raced at LeMans in 1930 by Sir Timothy Birkin.
Based on an Airfix kit, it runs on a set of DArt custom Vintage wheels and tires. Thanks Art.
For comparison of wheel and tire combinations I have measured some of the offerings used in some of the plastic 1930’s kits I have. This may be of some use, or may serve only to add valuable confusion.
Model Wheel Diam (mm) Tire Diam (mm)
Airfix 1930 Blower Bentley 16.65 24.66
Pyro 1930 Blower Bentley 16.9 25.13
Pyro 1934 Bugatti Type 59 17.09 23.38
Pyro 1931 Alfa Romeo 1750 Grand Sport 14.86 22.77
Pyro 1931 Aston Martin International LeMans 16.00 25.37
MPC 1933 MG K3 Magnette 16.45 22.09
Original wheel/Tire sizes during this era seem to have been a bit of a mish-mash from the manufacrurer’s. For our practical purposes, except in rare cases where you are able to make your own wheel/tire sets, we will be pretty much be limited to the tall/tin wheel/tire combinations that are available to us.
Currently that’s:
1. (and so long as he is willing to make them) a DArt Custom with a wheel Diam. of ~16.34mm and a tire diam. of ~23mm untrued. Based on the above chart these might look a bit small on some cars and a bit large on others but in all cases are certainly within reason. If they look tall just true them a bit.
2. Another source is RS Slots in the UK. They offer 3 vintage wheel tire sets. All three of their wheels are 16mm dia x 3.25mm wide with 2.5mm boss for grub screw. That’s pretty much the DArt size. Their inserts vary by spokes, 36,48 and 60. Tyre choice is small sport (21.4mmx 2.8mm wide), medium road (20mm dia x 3.15mm) or large road (22.15mm dia x 4.4mm wide). There is no mention as to whether the tires are urethane or rubber.
So as far as standardizing, wheel sizes in the 16-17mm. diameter range with a max. tire diameter of 23mm. should seem to be appropriate for a start. These are right in line with Art’s current thoughts and current DArt or RS Slots vintage wheel/tires and will probably be what we can get our hands on for most practical purposes. You will probably want DArt tires unless the RS Slots ones are urethane.
… Mr. Birkin is running the Blower on the test stand as I write this.
A Pre-War Grand Prix Class Proposal: A few thoughts:
I don’t know whether any of this is particularly relevant to establishing a class basis, but:
1. The track widths of the vintage cars with bicycle fenders depends basically on where the fenders end up after they are attached to the car. This fixture is at the end of two long, thin, fragile pieces of plastic. Being old, some of the fender fitment is not necessarily precise due to variations in tooling and the affects of old age and treachery on the plastic (warping). On one side of the front of the Bentley this was quite pronounced with little to be easily done about it. I put the fenders on as well as possible and put the wheels under them. Front track is: 53.94 mm., (remarkably close to Felix’s) rear is 50.20, both with DArt wheels and tires. A possible situation Art noticed on the Aston Ulster. On the original Blower Bentley the track was about 56″ (I haven’t found a difference between front and rear, this scales to 44.5 mm. for 1/32.) So apparently the model manufactures are not totally accurate and this will probably vary from manufacturer to manufacturer and from model to model. On the real Ulster they were the same at 52″.
2. On the Bentley the wheels and tires look small, although they measure very closely to the actual wheels/tires that came with the kit.(~23.00mm for the DArts vs. 24.66mm for the kit plastic wheels.) If I were able to find bigger (taller) wheels/tires the model would look better IMHO.
3. Current ground clearance on the Bentley is ~4mm. Which will be increased with a small change to the next chassis build (although I don’t think I’ll try to change this one), or with the addition of taller wheels/tires should they ever be forthcoming??
Apart from these discrepancies and a few small touch ups, Mr. Birkin is ready for an on track trial??
A very welcome clarification for those of us who always had difficulty doing the 15″=14mm. dance. Thanks Art. :rose:
Delving back into historic races is one of the great things about this little hobby. Remembering things long forgotten while researching a car is fun, finding out new stories from even further back is fascinating, especially when the stories have lots of Alfas!!
Thanks Art. :good:
As it turns out I missed quite a few and mis-identified a couple as well?? The biggest gaff being mis-identification of one of the stars, a reworked Lagonda DP115 V-12 :scratch:
And so from the ‘way more information than you ever wanted’ department, a rather more complete compilation of the cars seen in the movie can be found here.
https://www.imcdb.org/m49065.html
From one of the comments about the Lagonda:
“This project was given a code DP115, which was chassis reference DP 115/1 and 2, with a third spare chassis being built but not used. The maiden outing was Silverstone in May 1954 when Reg Parnell took DP 115/1 to 5th place despite oil pressure problems. DP 115/1 crashed at Le Mans in June the same year, after achieving 148.27 mph on the Mulsanne Straight. Reg Parnell achieved 4th place in DP 115/2 at Silverstone in July. This was the Legonda’s best result. According to John Wyers account in “Racing with David Brown Aston Matins”, DP 115/1 was given a new chassis frame, believed to be DP 115/3 at the end of 1954 while the damaged to the rear body was repaired. …… In 1955 there was a suggestion that many of the components from DP 115/1 as well as the engine and transmission were built in to DP 166/1, which had a more modern space frame chassis and disc brakes, and the body discarded, ending up in Coleys West London yard. The only race that the revised car DP 166/1 completed in was the 1955 Le Mans, when it retired after 93 laps having run out of fuel, apparently due to a wrongly fitted and leaking fuel cap. Subsequently, the chassis frame from DP 166/1 was stripped, and the components reassembled into 115/3 with a new body and this and DP 115 /2 were refurbished for the film Checkpoint.” B-)
Find more here:
http://hyde1841.blogspot.ca/2012/05/lagonda-dp115.html
The car in the movie may well have been this one with the two outer grills closed in and the Lagonda badge replaced with a larger but similar Ingram Motors badge.
Notice the hulking quad cam V-12 engine with the three 4 barrel downdrafts that necessitated the tall hood scoop!
After much sorting of the V-12 motor, one does quite well in Vintage events today. Seen here at Goodwood. :yahoo:
You can see the visual similarity to the DB3S.
The entire movie can be found here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbpNV_R-R8c
It’s a poor movie, but a lot of great cameo appearances by in era cars: Healey 100-4 (look closely) , Aston Martin DB2/4’s, loads of Ferrari’s, MG A’s, plenty of Alfa Romeo Giulietta Coupes, Porsche 356’s, Maserati’s, possibly an OSCA, possiply a Fiat 1600, a gullwing 300SL, and of course the stars, a couple of reworked Aston Martin DB3S’s I think. :yahoo:
Spectacular job F1Nutz!!
I’m sorry I left before seeing it run!! :scratch:From the same era as the Bugatti, and from another old Airfix kit, the 1930 4 1/2 Litre Blower Bentley is moving along, almost done, except for some proper size wheels/tires and a few small accessory bits and touch ups before it’s ready to try on the track. Visually, it’s a monster compared to your sweet little Bugatti. Driven by Sir Henry “Tim’ Birkin himself. Should be fun to see them on the track together!
With the current slightly smaller size build wheels/tires, clearance is around 4mm (attempted to have the axles come out from the car in the correct location), width at outside of fenders will be about 47 & 54 mm. and sir Henry will sit about 47mm (about 60 1:1 inches) off the track! Certainly not GT40 esque dimensions. Hopefully it will parade serenely around the track in proper British fashion!! More to follow on completion.
1930 LeMans pits, 2 blower Bentley’s in for tea!
Herr Strobel is having way too much fun. Lots more of his videos and work on the site.
Thanks Drew. :wacko:
A road racers heaven, 2 lanes, no gendarmes, great countryside!! Cars, track, video and sound track all really well done!! :yahoo:
Fun Alfa video afterwards
Thanks for the motors! :yahoo: Even though it appears they may disappear from use?? :wacko:
Same # as Vanski available locally here (possibly) :scratch: But as you say, not cheap. They are in Brampton.
http://www.consumer-parts.com/PPN13EB10C-DVD-Loading-Motor-PPN13EB10C.htm
After posting initially, I called the above supplier and the motor’s are on back order from their supplier. No eta at the moment. They will send them an email and then get back to me with availability and current pricing.
And so while I was typing this they got back to me. Motors are available. In low quantities they are about $15.95C/unit. They will do a volume discount (quantity point to be determined) that could possibly get the cost down to about $11.00C/unit. Delivery is about 3-4 weeks at these prices. Faster delivery will add about $2.00 to the cost per motor in low volumes, about $1/motor in higher volumes. All costs and volumes approximate at this time. If there is any interest perhaps we can put a significant order together. Perhaps anyone interested could respond to this thread. :mail:
What a great idea!! I’ll have to wait until the 1/32 hold down straps are finished, then I would get a podium!!! I always knew there was a way!! Thanks Art! :yahoo:
Great shots. Thanks for posting. Looks like the CRCA folks were heading for cover as he hit the Armco right in front of them!! New uniforms for them!!
Great old video. Thanks for posting. Gone too are the days of the DieHard Battery, featured prominently as well as the cars!! 😥
Spectacular doesn’t even begin to describe this combo
. Remarkable detail!! It’s really going to be embarrassing when this rig beats me around the track!!!
Thanks Dave. No wonder that I can never tell them apart just looking!! Great summation of the little details of the Chevron ‘evolution within the B19/21/23 series of cars.
The car you have I think (and Art may correct me if I’m mistaken) was a B23 that ran at LeMans in 1973. Chevron B23 chassis #73-09 that had a Ford Cosworth FVC in line 4 cylinder, 4v DOHC 1930 cc motor. It was entered by Escuderia Montjuich and driven by José Juncadella (E) & Jorge de Bagration (E) It was a DNF due to gearbox issues.
The B23 was the last of the ‘space frame’ Chevrons before going to a Monocoque chassis because Chevron’s were being beaten by the Lola’s of the era. As I understand it, the B23 was basically a B21 with minor modifications some of which Dave may have found as he was researching the B19/21 info. Perhaps he will share those with us. As I understand it, it was limited to a bolt on piece that closed in the tail section behind the rear wheels.
Many cars of this type are being raced around the country at vintage events. They are indecently fast little devils!!!
Some original film of the ’57 race. Many of the cars in the earlier attachments are seen. Not great quality but…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzegAlq92V0
I think it was Art who was asking how much support did the body panels have if they were simply ‘draped’ over the tubes. The answer -not surprisingly- is …. sometimes not nearly enough!!
An early shot of the w125 streamliner after a test!! The front is not supposed to look like that!!
Since inquiring minds wanted to know…
1. The construction method is “Superleggera” literally ‘super light’. Patented by Carrozzeria Touring in 1936, the superleggera system consists of a structural framework of small-diameter steel tubes that conform to an automobile body’s shape and are covered by thin alloy body panels that may somewhat strengthen the framework. The superleggera tubes were brazed (welded) to shape on a jig and the panels were then fitted over this. The panels are only attached at their edges, mostly by swaging the panel edges over angle-section strips on the steel framework. Most of the panel has no rigid or metal-to-metal contact with the framework, it merely rests on it. Carrozzeria Touring licensed the superleggera construction system to Aston Martin, who designed and manufactured superleggera bodywork for the DB4 and DB5.
2. Major drawbacks/benefits: A superleggera body cannot meet modern impact resistance standards, the cost of manufacture and galvanic corrosion between the aluminum body panels and the steel tubular frame are also issues. As well, the frame tubes used to construct a superleggera body are too small and inappropriately designed for mounting suspension components, so a chassis is required, a disadvantage not found in space frame and other chassis systems. Car makers such as Bristol, were somewhat more successful in countering galvanic corrosion than other manufacturers. Bristol introduced Superleggera construction on the Bristol 401 of 1948.
A ‘superleggera’ type upper structure showing the frame required .
A spaceframe chassis showing suspension attached to the tubes. Note extensive triangulation.
Aside from light weight, the superleggera construction system allows great design and manufacturing flexibility, enabling coach builders to quickly construct innovative body shapes without having to make expensive stamping dies. Good for low volume construction.
3. In order to combat galvanic corrosion the tubes were wrapped in burlap or with a rubber spacer. Aston Martin placed a felt strip between the tube and the body metal which often fell out and when water was present and the materials rubbed, then galvanic corrosion issues began.
DB4 structure showing main frame structure and Superleggera upper section.4. The car is a Mercedes Benz T80 Rekordwagen. Designed by Ferdinand Porsche. It had some 3,000 HP.
In this picture you can see the massive frame.
And here you see the tubing that the body panels would be draped over.
It never ran as the war intervened.
There, way more than you ever wanted to know!!
Excellent Bill!
And I presume that Art already knows most of the answers since the photo showed up beside an event poster from whence I borrowed it.!!
So:
1. It is not a tubular spaceframe. Some interesting differences between the two that would be worthwhile going into after this little diversion.
2. It is not an Alfa, however in 1937 this achingly beautiful Alfa did use this system and may have been the 1st car to do so after the system was patented. And thanks for giving me an opening to show it!!
3. Certainly some of the benefits and drawbacks are spot on.
What a lucky devil that driver is!!
And so in response to a question about these cars I went and actually found the Canary Island pictures!! Miracles will never cease??!!
These are from 1977 on the Island of Tenerife. Note the Porsche Crest on this car as opposed to the VW one. I suspect that it was a private owner who removed the VW logo and added a Porsche crest. Badge engineering/wishful thinking at it’s finest! But who knows?? Apparently 65 of these were exported from Brazil to the Canary Islands. And/or perhaps this car was a harbinger of things to come….
On this car the original hard panel between the lights has been blacked out as well as the section in the front of the hood. Looks quite good.
However:…. remind anyone of anything???
The car (SP2) may well have been (and to my eye certainly was) inspiration for the Porsche (VW/Audi) 924. You can see the family resemblance below (with even some 944/928 ish elements).
Digging a bit on the internet:
The person in Brazil responsible for the SP2 ( Dr. Rudolf Leiding ) who had autonomy to develop the car in Brazil. By 1971 he had returned to Europe and was the head of VW in Germany. The EA425 was intended to be a Volkwagen car being developed at VW’s request by Porsche for VW production using an Audi motor and marketed by Audi and/or VW (VW was the parent company of Audi at the time). When VW decided not to go ahead with production, Porsche bought the rights to the design and produced it themselves (at a VW plant), still using the Audi motor.This link gives a bit more food for thought
http://924er.blogspot.ca/2011/07/from-volkswagen-sp2-to-porsche-924.htmlAnd a bit about Leiding.
http://www.vwsp2.ch/joomla31/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=56&Itemid=238&lang=enAnd more than you ever wanted to know about the SP2. Wander around on this site under history to see pretty much the whole SP2 story.
http://vwsp2.ch/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=234&lang=enYou can find out lots about the EA425 design, but I could not find any articles that directly linked it to the SP2. However, given it’s executive lineage and the visual resemblance, the connection between the SP2 and the 924 seems very hard to deny!
Another interesting VW from Brazil, an SP2. Saw both of these types in the Canary Islands in the mid 70’s. (Some Puma’s were assembled in South Africa around this time). The ones I saw actually had Porsche crests on them??!! Certainly lots of Porsche design cues. If I ever find those old photos I will add them.
At the time the area behind the pits was terraced into about 3 levels, the pits being on the highest level. The 1st photo of the re-fuelling was taken on the lower level. The canteen that was there until recently, and was the scene of wonderful breakfasts for many years, is just visible to the left under the Players sign. At that time they had an area where you could do a sit down breakfast. The British Leyland bus (red. white and blue) just in front of the canteen still occasionally shows up for Vintage weekends.
Great shots Bill. Thanks.
Graham Hill in his Lotus who finished 4th, behind the Brabham’s of Brabham and Hulme and the Eagle of Gurney.
Earlier that day my Dad and I were in the aforementioned canteen when Stewart, Hill & Clark came in for breakfast.
And a couple more, same race:
And the business end of Jack’s car:
And some eye candy in the Corvette Corral:
Hope everyone who was interested was able to get to the track on Friday or Saturday. It was great to see (and hear) the F1 cars on track. Attached are a few shots from Saturday. Lots more including some video if anyone is interested. Let me know and I’ll upload to a site and send you a link that you can download from. That would save a lot of email space.
It was released in Canada on May 10th, but I couldn’t find it playing anywhere until the 25th. These links will show you where/when.
https://www.tribute.ca/showtimes/movie/oakville/the-green-hell/124752/?datefilter=-2#search
https://www.frontrowcentre.com/locations/ontario/toronto/the-green-hell/124752/?date=5/25/2017
I’ll be going to AMC 24 at Winston Churchill and the QEW.
Congrats on the new site. :yahoo: Quite Slick!! Don’t know where you find the time with all the other projects.
In celebration of the upcoming run of 550’s a bit from ‘the way we were’. A 1956ish 550RS at Harewood Acres near Jarvis June 8th 1957. Possibly Art Bunker, who won the 1.5 race that day.
Meanwhile, back in the parking lot.
Giving the Bentley a run for it’s money!! Imagine going down the road in that!!
And back when a Speedster was just a Porsche you used to go to watch the races and an old coupe was just that! B-)
It’s been a while since we visited Sebring. At the starting line folks are milling about.
Prior to the start, a section of the pits.
The previously seen XK:SS in the foreground.
#55 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce driven by Jake Kaplan and Charlie Rainville. They finished 20th overall and 1st in the 1.3GT class! :yahoo:
#58 Cooper T39 of Tom Hallock and Max Goldman who finished 18th in a 1098cc car!!
#59 The Chapman/Sheppard/Dungan Lotus 11 that finished 11th overall and 1st in S1.1!
#60 The Chamberlin/Lozano Lotus 11 that DNF’d due to a fuel issue.
#61 Another Lotus 11, from Puerto Rico driven by Merino/Pedrerra/Rosales, finished 32nd.
#63 A DB (Deutsch-Bonnet)HBR5 driven by Storr/Ullrich that DNF’d. An 846cc Panhard engine!
And a bit closer to the front of the line.
#49 MGA entered by Hambro automotive Canada (Canadian distributor then) driven by Allan Miller/ Ed Leavens (later of Leavens Automotive (now Leavens VW in London Ont.) & who drove many different cars at Jarvis in the 50’s and 60’s)/Rowland Keith. Finished 23rd, 1st in GT1.6 B-)
#50 MGA entered by Hambro automotive USA (North American distributor then) driven by Spitler/Kinchloe who finished 36th
#51 MGA entered by Hambro automotive USA & driven by Ash/Ehrman/van Driel who finished 27th
#52 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider Veloce Entered by Sir Sydney Oakes of the Bahamas (Sydney Oakes was born in Toronto on June 9th 1927 while his parents were residing at Oak Hall in Niagara Falls. He grew up in Niagara Falls and as an adult he returned to Canada and lived in Oak Hall with his own family. Following the death of his father, Sir Harry Oakes, the title of baronet was transferred to his eldest son – Sir Sydney Oakes. Although he had inherited a fortune, Sir Sydney was a businessman and owned the largest bottling company in the Bahamas and was also involved in real estate. On Monday August 8th 1966, Sir Sydney Oakes was killed in Nassau, the Bahamas when the sports car he was driving failed to negotiate a highway curve and crashed into a utility pole.) B-)
& driven by Sherman Crise (BS)/Alan Markelson (USA) They finished 24th overall.
#54 Alfa Romeo Giulietta Spider driven by Comito/Kessler/Rubin that finished 38th.Some fun historical tidbits in there. Many of these folks are long gone and forgotten, but they occasionally come back to life when we review these old races. B-)
Peter Ryan, :yahoo: the eventual winner chasing down an Osca 2000s of Ray Heppenstall, who in 1968 drove a Howmet turbine at Daytona, Sebring, LeMans and The Glen. You can just see Bob Holbert’s retired RS61 in the bottom right corner of the photo!
Art:
Thanks for posting these. I love the era pricing, even a suggested wheelbase if you want to make your own chassis! :yahoo:
Thanks for posting this Art. As you say, a very plain livery, buts that’s the way it was. Great job, on the car and resisting the urge to add interest. Can’t wait to see it in the flesh.
Below, Bonnier in Holland 1962. Note the difference in tire size and aspect ratio.
:rose:
Putting the “A” in Authentic! :yahoo:
Great job and such an appropriate vehicle for the Ring!!! :good:
Just don’t try to pass on the tool side!! :wacko:
Thanks Art. Timely advice. I’ve often avoided spraying because when I just use just a small bit and the nozzle is clogged for the next time it was rather annoying?? At $$$/can this will save a lot. It also sounds as if I should be switching to Tamiya paint and be done with it once and for all!! :yahoo:
Great way to get back to a clean starting point! Do the parts need to be roughed up a bit prior to priming or can they be left as is and just prime?
Thanks for posting. :good:
I’ll try to post several more of the era’s Porsche’s as I find them. Most were variations on a silver theme, but Peter Ryan ran a white one with a green maple leaf at Mosport that would be unique, and several others ran at other local tracks, including one driven by Roger Penske, prior to that.
If the slides have faded, imagine how much I’ve lost!!
#1 Is from the inside of the track coming up the hill out of turn two and just setting up for 3.
#2 is again inside of track by the concession stand looking down on the track as you go up from turn 1 and before you start the drop down into turn 2.
I think?? :scratch:
The slides have been cleaned up a bit and the contrast increased to make them look better on screen. The slide emulsion has faded over 55 years. The colour is correct but it was a bit softer, a wonderful shade affectionately known at the time as ‘puke green’! If anyone is trying to match colours I would post an unretouched version. The correct hue would be somewhere between the two.
And for something just a bit smaller! (About a 1/3rd the displacement of the Maserati’s and Ferrari’s.)
#59 is a Lotus 11 driven by Colin Chapman, Joe Sheppard and Dick Dungan. They finished 11th overall and 1st in the 1100cc. class. Sheppard was the US distributor for Lotus at the time.
#60 is the Lotus 11 of Jay Chamberlain and Ignacio Lozano who were a DNF due to a fuel issue.
For the 11, there were two main body styles: one with a headrest and the other with no headrest, just two small fins. These cars were the latter.
Ferrari 315 Sport chassis #0674 with a Ferrari V12 3500 cc engine. Driven by Peter Collins & Maurice Trintignant, it finished 6th overall. It raced later that year at The Mille Miglia driven by Von Tripps where it finished 2nd overall, at LeMans driven by Mike Hawthorn & Luigi Musso (DNF) and then at Watkins Glen in Sept. of the following year where it finished 3rd. This is the car that recently sold for $35M out of the Bardinon collection.Go here for more details on the chassis history.
http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/0674.315s.htm
I couldn’t find any races where the 300S was #23 so sadly no history there. Good luck in the proxy races though.
Staying at Sebring for 1957 I did however find a few photos of interesting cars seen in passing, either inside of the track or on the streets of Sebring.
A 1948 Tucker. This car was probably a re-paint as I think the factory cars were a single colour.
A Jaguar XK SS. Looks to have driven down from New York. Possibly the 1957 New York Auto Show car. One of 16 road going D-Types that escaped before the fire at Brown’s Lane.
Bentley Continental. After all you wouldn’t want to be uncomfortable going to the races!!??
Two 300SL Gullwings and an Aston Martin DB2 possibly an early DB2/4 Mk.III.
I tried to make the text wrap alongside the picture but it seemed to revert when submitted. More to follow in a later post. :unsure:
Just pre-start at the 1957 edition of the Sebring 12 hour race. In this case mostly customer Ferrari 500 TRC’s lined up.
Ferrari handed off the four-cylinder sports racer line to customers at the end of 1956, choosing to focus on its own attention on the V12-powered cars. The 1956/7 500 TRC was a revised version of the 500 TR (Testa Rosa) of the previous year. In keeping with the new regulations, Ferrari widened the cockpit, added doors, fitted a windscreen, and added a stowable convertible top. It rode on the longer 2350 mm wheelbase of the 860 Monza and featured coil springs all around, and retained a live axle in the rear. The 680 kg car’s 180 hp made it quite capable, and even though it was never a works car, the 500 TRC claimed class victories at LeMans, Sebring and the Targa Florio.
#28 Ferrari 500 TRC driven by Richie Ginther and Howard Hively. Finished 10th overall and 1st in 2.0L class
#29 Ferrari 500 TRC driven by Ed Lunken & Charles Hassan. DNF due to a fuel leak.
#30 Ferrari 500 TRC driven byWilliam Helburn and Jim Pauley. DNF due to cooling leak.
#31 Ferrari 500 TRC driven byJan De Vroom, George Arents & David Cunningham. 14th overall.
#71 just to the left is an Arnolt Bolide that finished 30th.
Back to try again??
This is Moss in a 300S Maserati around sunset. He and Harry and Schell finished 2nd to Fangio and Behra in a 450S Maserati.
But I still can’t get the photo to go inline. How do I do that Art?
Link to SCI thread that has the ‘slot car motor news’ list in 3 different spreadsheet style formats. May be a bit easier to search than the original.
http://slotcarillustrated.com/portal/forums/showthread.php?t=60998
Kevin:
Thanks. My 2C is actually a Revell Monogram FF-050 rated slightly slower for whatever reason.Revell-Monogram slim can (FF-050) tested 18,836-20,244 RPM/12v
tested 130-131 gcm/12v, tested 6.3-6.4W/12v
For that reason I voted for a 20K motor, although I suspect for me it won’t make any difference so I’m good regardless of what is decided. Just want something to run in the early class and Alfa wasn’t playing.
MiA
Fail #2. Tried using the ‘img’ button but still no joy?? Looks like I’m in for some Special High Intensity Training??
Thanks Art, I think the posts look much better when you can see a thumbnail of the attachment you are clicking on.
I’ll try again to add photos with the text. I wasn’t using the ‘img’ switch last time I tried.Still trying to add photos in the text body so that images and history could be together. 1st attempt was a fail, ended up with attached images and just the text of the link description in the body after submission. I could edit the text and remove attachments but couldn’t seem to delete the post entirely, so this rather than a blank submission.
Thanks Art. This really is a steep learning curve!! The sheet was a different one that may have come from SCI. It lists just motors, by manufacturer, RPM and torque values, generally with a visual ID clue if there is any. Very nice for newbies who think they look alike so they must be the same?? :wacko:
So although it’s an FF050 motor, and it looks like a duck, it’s not a similar enough duck to a BWA BWMS050 or a Vanski FF050 motor to be possibly eligible, is that correct?? What’s the difference? Thanks.
It’s no wonder I’m so confused?? :unsure:
MiA
PS. I just received a nice spreadsheet that answers the preceding question (who knew there were so many motors out there??)so please disregard the initial question. 🙂
1. How do you insert an image into the post? I can’t seem to, it’s seems I can only add images as an attachment.
2. It would be nice if you could see the original posted thumbnail at the start of a new post but not have it repeated each time there is a reply. Is this possible?MiA :unsure:
Safety was a high priority in the 50’s obviously!!
Some History:
The Corvette was driven by John Fitch and Piero Taruffi. It retired with rear end issues.
Hambro automotive who was the Healey importer for NA entered 3 streamliners, possibly special 100S’s or some maybe 100-6’s, history is a bit unclear. The #23 car (AHS3804) was originally one of 4 special test cars (Reg. NOJ391) that was rebuilt as a 100s that morphed into the streamliner. It had previously raced at the Mille Miglia, the Daytona Beach speed trials, Sebring in 1954, 1956 and was a DNF in ’57 due to a fuel issue after 98 laps. It later raced at Nassau in ’58 and Bahamas in ’62. It was restored in 1988 and a replica built in the guise of it’s 1954 Sebring livery in 1992ish.
The #5 Jaguar driven by Hawthorne and Ivor Bueb finished 3rd. That car was also raced at Reims in ’56(won) LeMans in ’56(6th), Limerock in ’57(won) and others. It’s still being raced at places like Goodwood and the historic Mille Miglia.
